Ahead of the Raleigh Women’s March, We Asked Men in the Triangle About Feminism

In the U.S., one in five women will experience a rape or attempted rape in their lifetimes. In 80 percent of those assaults, the victim will know the assailant. One in four girls will be sexually abused before she turns eighteen. A woman in this country is beaten every nine seconds. And, of course, women still earn about 80 percent of what men make in the workplace. 

Next year will mark the one-hundredth anniversary of the ratification of the Nineteenth Amendment, which guaranteed women the right to vote. Yet no woman has ascended to the White House, though one did receive more votes than any white man ever has. Instead, the current resident of the Oval Office famously boasted about “grabbing [women] by the pussy.”

Those comments were brushed aside as “locker-room talk” by politicians and preachers who saw in Donald Trump a chance to reshape the federal courts to deny women the right to control their own bodies. Last year, they got what they wanted: an anti-abortion Supreme Court justice who’d been credibly accused of sexual assault but was rammed through the Senate as a middle finger to the #MeToo movement.

The problem isn’t just Trump. It’s the culture that enabled him—a toxic masculinity that shames victims, deems ambitious women “unlikable,” and even whose cartoons teach little girls to think of themselves as hypersexualized objects. 

But Trump’s election also awakened something—a wave of resurgent, unapologetic feminism determined to fight an old patriarchy that was desperate to maintain control. This new energy found a home in the Women’s Marches in January 2017 and 2018, in which millions of women all over the globe took to streets to demand respect and equal rights. It also lent support to the #MeToo movement and formed the foundation of November’s blue wave that thoroughly repudiated Trump.

At 1:00 p.m. Saturday, thousands of women—and men—will gather in Halifax Mall for the third-annual Women’s March on Raleigh. (While the national Women’s March has been dogged by allegations of anti-Semitism and LGBTQ exclusion, the local group isn’t affiliated with it.) Ahead of that event, I wanted to explore what feminism means today. More specifically, I wanted to find out what feminism means to men: What comes to mind when they think of the words feminism and toxic masculinity? How do they navigate rape culture, and what were they taught about consent? Do they believe our society is still fundamentally unequal and patriarchal? 

The truth is, women need men to achieve equality, and equality is only possible when there are understanding and respect between genders. 

Over the last few months, I conducted dozens of interviews with men in the Triangle, asking a series of questions about feminism and related issues, an exercise designed to help me better understand their perceptions of the roles they play and to raise their awareness of inequality. I’ve collected some of their responses here, edited for space and clarity. To ensure candor, I’m only using their first names.

I found many of their answers surprisingly aware—if they weren’t well-informed, they were at least willing to listen and learn. But I also came away thinking that we don’t talk about this stuff nearly enough, that we as a community need to have more authentic conversations about what feminism and gender equality really mean, and that we as parents (perhaps along with sex-positive educators) need to have more forthright conversations with our kids about consent. 

Matt, 35, director of operations

Are you a feminist?

I guess it depends on your definition. Do I support women’s rights? Absolutely.

Do you believe we live in an unequal, patriarchal society?

I wouldn’t say that it’s unequal. I would say there are certain segments of society and industries that have a bias either toward or against women, but I don’t think as a whole we are a biased patriarchal system, no. 

Do you think women should be paid as much as men?

Absolutely. All things being equal, if you’re working hard, skill set for skill set, absolutely.

Do you think the government should require equal pay?

You know, I don’t know about the law, because that becomes legal mumbo-jumbo. I don’t know about laws, but there definitely should be guidance within organizational policies that say that, and I think some companies are getting there, but there’s probably a long way to go.

Have you ever witnessed a sexual assault?

Not to my knowledge. You know, actually, I am going to retract that. Based on now what I understand sexual assault to be, yes. And I understand the severity of it. Yes. If you asked me this question ten years ago, I would’ve said no to the same set of circumstances, but I think now having a much better understanding, being more mature, being more aware, actually, yes.

So I assume it was hard at the time to do anything to prevent it?

So yeah, I mean it was, you know, it was things that, you know, a twenty-four-year-old and, you know, obviously living in a very different time where issues weren’t as broad, you didn’t read stories on Instagram and social media, people weren’t coming out about being where an incident happened, there was nothing out there to really make you think about the implications of what at the time was considered “he was drunk or she was drunk,” whatever the case may be. And whether it is, you know, just an inappropriate, you know, kiss on the cheek or gesture with a hand and not necessarily anything that’s completely egregious, where, you know, somebody is going to get arrested, but still unwanted—which I think is the key term, right? You know, I think sexual assault these days is, as it should be, defined as any unwanted verbal or physical gesture toward another person. And that’s not something I would’ve recognized ten years ago. To have a look back, absolutely. But no, I think at the time, I probably didn’t realize it.

What does feminism mean to you?

Well, I think, unfortunately, in today’s society, it’s taken on a negative connotation. People look at it as a bad thing. That it’s the female population trying to take advantage of a certain set of rules or regulations or policies. I don’t think that at all. Feminism is really, in a nutshell, equality for women that you shouldn’t have to be arguing for, but, you know, unfortunately, we have a history that puts us in a position where we have to argue for it. And, I think, in my lifetime, it no longer will have to be a discussion you have on purpose, it will just be something that happens by the course of nature, I hope.

Pete, 47, police officer

Are you a feminist?

I don’t consider myself a feminist by label, no. I mean, I am an equalist. That’s the term I just made up myself. I work in a very male-dominated profession; however, I love to see anyone who is qualified to do the job standing alongside me, and that person, of course, should be paid the same amount of money as me as long as we are both qualified, whether they are female or male or whether they don’t identify as either. So whether I am a feminist or not, I don’t know. I am a humanist. I am an equalist.

What does feminism mean to you?

I think feminism has sort of morphed. Unfortunately, the popular opinion, and this is not my opinion, the popular opinion of feminism is a bunch of angry, men-hating women who generally don’t have a concern about equality, but more superiority.

Brandon, 19, food truck operator

Have you ever heard the term toxic masculinity?

Yeah. It’s the way that lots of men were raised to suppress their emotions, to suppress their feelings based on societal norms, and it manifests itself into this masculine toxic energy.

Have you ever heard a sexist comment or a joke and felt pressure to laugh or keep quiet?

Yeah, not to laugh, but keep quiet. Because I have felt like it’s not in my place to speak up for someone because I’m not in that marginalized group. But I’m starting to feel more comfortable with speaking up for people who are being oppressed because I wish that someone would’ve done the same for me.

Did your parents ever talk to you about sex and consent?

They gave me a really half-ass conversation about sex and consent. It didn’t really pertain to how that applies to gay men. Really half-ass.

Ethan, 27, grant writer

Do you think we live in a patriarchal society?

Oh, absolutely! There’s no doubt this is a profoundly patriarchal and racist society.

What do you think about pornographic films that depict violence and domination over women?

I read a fair amount of academic literature on pornography, and I would say that some of it is definitely violently misogynistic and a lot of it is really neither sexist nor progressive. A lot of it is pretty milquetoast. I think there is definitely sexist violent pornography out there. Definitely not something that interests me.

Do you think strip clubs are sexist?     

You know, I really don’t know. Again, there are issues of the economy of it and issues of economic power. But I could maybe imagine some weird sort of progressive stripping in a less profoundly sexist, patriarchal society. But like everything in the U.S., there is an element of sexism to it.

Do you think prostitution is sexist?

Not necessarily, because I think anyone can participate in sex work. So it’s not innately sexist even if there are serious economic power imbalances.

Bill, 37, contractor

Have you ever heard the term rape culture?

Yes. When I hear it, I think of, you know, fraternal college behavior and the group mindset of men that just, you know, laugh off unwanted sexual advances. In their mind, it’s harmless, but it’s unwanted sexual advances, so it’s not harmless.

Have you ever heard a sexist comment or joke and felt pressured to laugh or keep quiet?

Sure, yeah, I have a few different circles of friends, one of which is, you know, on the golf course. It’s a wide range of backgrounds of people that hang out together, and there are certainly, like, jokes at the expense of women.

Have you ever witnessed a sexual assault?

No. I didn’t. I mean, I’ve witnessed a good number of unwanted sexual advances, like, in college, but never an assault.

Did you try to prevent those incidents?

I don’t think I did in every instance, because again, and going back to your question about rape culture, you know, it was in the minds of, like, buddies or whomever I was with who were doing that, they thought they were just having fun, and, you know, it was harmless. But I could tell it was making, you know, the woman in this example uncomfortable. You know, just leave it alone.

What does feminism mean to you?

For some of the people I know, they might cringe just at the word feminism, and I think that’s one of the biggest issues with it. Because it really is just simply a matter of, like, women need to be equals in society, and at this point, they are simply not.

Would you say you are a feminist?

Um, by definition, yes. I’m a feminist, but not an activist.

Jeff, 41, criminal defense attorney

Are you a feminist?

I don’t know what that is.

Would you agree that we live in an unequal, patriarchal society?

Yes.

Do you think women should be paid as much as men?

Yes.

Do you think the government should make laws requiring equal pay?

No.

Have you ever gone to a Women’s March?

No. Never been invited.

Phil, 71, retired

Are you a feminist?

Give me your definition of feminism.

Someone who believes in equal rights.

Oh, absolutely. Then yes, I am.

What does feminism mean to you?

In life, if I met some girl that I considered feministic, the more feministic, the more it would have brought out the gentleman in me.

Would you agree that we live in an unequal, patriarchal society?

Well, I think it’s getting better. Men are probably not used to women getting the same rights as they have or the way they are being treated. But I think it’s getting better.

Steve, 38, educator

What does feminism mean to you?

My interpretation of being a feminist would be someone that is committed spiritually, personally, religiously, everything they do to promote champion, advocate, embrace equal gender rights for all.

Do you think the government should make laws requiring equal pay?

I do think there need to be interventions by institutions, and I am learning more and more the dynamics about the way that local and national governments play. But we need some way to intervene and break the momentum of the decades, of the centuries of bias that we had in our society. So yes.

Have you ever witnessed a sexual assault?

My initial instinct is to say no. But given some things in the news the last couple of months, I’d really like to go back in my memory banks and see. I’ve been fortunate to have really good role models, and I think I was taught some good values. I don’t know if I was naïve, and maybe the things I saw, definitely in high school and college—yeah, I’m sure there were a lot of what I would call unclear behaviors at that point in my life. And again, I wouldn’t have counted them at the time as sexual assault, maybe because of my own naïveté. But it’s probably a good exercise for me to go back, because there was a lot of drinking. I didn’t see people engaged in acts, but I saw what I would hope would be consensual acts. I was out and around a lot of things that were more like what people will call a hookup culture, you know, in college. And so I don’t know that I can honestly say no now.

Did your parents ever talk to you about sex and consent?

I think they did. I was such a dorky kid. And I remember this idea of love and sex was supposed to be between married people who love each other. I know I would never do anything to someone without their consent. I was raised to respect people. I don’t think they ever talked about, like, if you’re ever going to have sex with someone, because it was never presented as an option. It was more like this is something sacred that you should hold dear. I don’t think that was the part of the way they would describe it, and so that’s interesting that you ask about [sex and consent] together. Because as a parent now, I would absolutely include that in my talk to my children.

Charles, 32, manager

Would you agree that we live in an unequal, patriarchal society?

Yes and no. I wouldn’t say that it’s a blanket statement that we are in an unequal, patriarchal society. I would definitely say that there is a ton of inequity for women in the marketplace, in tech. The numbers show it. So I will say yes and no.

Do you think women should be paid as much as men?

Of course.

Do you think the government should make laws requiring equal pay?

Anytime the government gets involved with things such as equal pay and things like that, I think, as long as we have the right people at the table and it is not a top-down approach … I think that’s what really gets us into a lot of hot water, especially when it comes to equity. We typically have a top-down approach.

What is your position on abortion?

I have two ways to think about that. One is women arguing for the right to choose, where they keep the baby or not. And on the pro-life side, if women are not given the right to choose, there need to be people, not just money, willing to step up to raise that child. Particularly, me being an African-American man and also being a part of underdeveloped, economically fragmented communities of color, where there are too many babies being born into really tough situations. Even though they are not aborted, they are pretty much aborted into the system and left to die, or left to be incarcerated.

Ben, 38, massage therapist and cycling coach

Have you ever heard the term toxic masculinity?

I’m sure I’ve heard it. I think it is an expectation that men are to behave a certain way to their—in lots of cases—to their own detriment as well as a societal detriment. Something that leads to certain expectations in the male culture, like, you know, when you’re supposed to have sex, and how you should feel about women, and how you should talk about women.

What do you think about pornographic films that depict violence and domination over women?

I think there’s some stuff out there that’s pretty awful. And I think that the problem is that the path that it leads us down is that the young men who are probably the ones predominately watching it think that stuff is appropriate and the right way to engage in a sexual relationship. So it changes how we interact sexually in a very negative way.

Do you think most organized religion is sexist?

Hell yeah, absolutely.

Do you think strip clubs are sexist?

No, I don’t, in terms of the general idea of the strip club. But most strip clubs end up being sexist organizations because of the environment they create for people. So the idea of somebody going and seeing a strip show, I think, if people want to do it, it’s great, but if it’s something that, you know, if it leads to a company that gets wrapped up in sex trafficking and prostitution, that’s a problem.

Do you think prostitution is sexist?

I think our society has made it sexist. I’m not somebody who would advocate for prostitution, but I’m also a pragmatist, and I think prostitution is something that will always exist. And it’s kind one of those really fuzzy lines where, do you push really hard against it and try to outlaw it, or do you give people who engage in prostitution the best chance to be as safe as possible by giving them free medical care and making sure that they’re not being sex-trafficked? And, you know, I support highly regulating something instead of pushing against it. We need to understand the underlying root cause of it. It’s a deeper societal problem. Just stamping out prostitution is not going to solve anything.

Zak, 31, software engineer

What does feminism mean to you?

To me, it’s this kind of idea that feminism almost doesn’t have to exist. There shouldn’t have to be a group of people who go out of their way to believe that women should not have any discriminatory forces acting against them. And I feel that way not just about women but about other marginalized groups where people feel discriminated against for some intrinsic thing that has no bearing on who they are as a person.

What does toxic masculinity mean to you?

Where masculinity as an idea is so pervasive that it just amplifies itself, like when I’m around my friends who are really into cars—I just went to a car show, and there are one or two people who aren’t really into cars, just because there’s so much of that energy, we end up talking about cars too much, more than we would if we were on our own. And I think toxic masculinity can be like that in male-dominated environments. And I work in a 99-percent male-dominated field, and I try to make a point to avoid that. I actively seek teams that are at least somewhat equally represented by women.

Mark, 36, general contractor

Are you a feminist?

I don’t know.

Would you agree that we live in an unequal, patriarchal society?

Absolutely.

Do you think women should be paid as much as men? 

Yes.

Do you think the government should be required to make laws to support equal pay?

I don’t care. 

Have you ever heard the term rape culture?

No.

What do you think it means?

Sounds like somebody getting raped. So it’s just like the way of life, where culture and society mean rape is OK, I guess.

Have you ever heard the term toxic masculinity?

No, not really. It almost sounds like you’re saying that people are going over the top with their masculinity thing.

What do you think about pornographic films that depict violence and domination over women?

I don’t really watch porn. I did as a kid a little bit. I hate it.

What is your stance on abortion?

I don’t think it’s right.

Do you think strip clubs are sexist?

I don’t know how to answer this. I don’t know what sexist means.

What do you think being sexist means? 

Maybe thinking that your sex is superior?

Do you think that most of organized religion is sexist?

I disagree. Wait, let me take it back. Do I think some religious organizations are sexist? Yes. But because they’re not paying attention to what the Bible says. You should show honor to women and not disrespect them. And I guess some people interpret it as they should be lower.

Have you ever gone to a Women’s March?

No. Why should I?

Darryl, 73, retired

Are you a feminist?

Yes.

What does feminism mean to you?

That women regardless of age, whatever, have the same rights and privileges as men.

Have you ever heard the term toxic masculinity?

I’ve heard of it, I think.

What do you think it means?

That men have privileges based on their maleness.

Have you ever gone to Women’s March?

No. I don’t know if there was time or I just didn’t. Even though I have four daughters, and I know that they would encourage me to if I was nearby—where is this march?