Candidates seeking judicial seats in Durham laid out their views on money bail in a forum held Tuesday by Southerners On New Ground, which is seeking to end the inequitable system of pretrial detention across the South.

There will be three contested judicial seats on the ballot in November: One in Superior Court and two for District Court. District Court judges are elected to four-year terms, while Superior Court judges are in office for eight years.

Unlike typical judicial campaigns, which tend to favor messaging about being fair or tough on crime, challengers in these races are also talking about issues like bail reform.

For the Superior Court seat, assistant district attorney Josephine Kerr Davis faces Dawn Baxton, senior assistant public defender for the county. Elaine O’Neal, who currently holds the seat, isn’t seeking re-election after being named interim dean of N.C. Central’s law school. (Incumbents are unopposed for two other Superior Court seats. Chief Superior Court Judge Orlando Hudson is not up for reelection this year.)

Incumbent James Hill, currently the chief District Court judge, is being challenged by Clayton Jones, an assistant district attorney and former public defender. Hill, the lone Republican on the ballot, has held the seat since 2002 — the last time he was opposed for re-election.

Incumbent District Court Judge Fred Battaglia faces civil rights attorney Dave Hall in his bid for a second term.

Battaglia didn’t join to forum, but did introduce himself to the crowd before the Q&A kicked off. Battaglia was a lawyer for thirty-three years.

“I gave up my law practice because I stood beside so many people that didn’t look like me that went to prison,” he told the crowd. “So I decided to be a judge.”

Battaglia called bonds “sort of an interesting animal,” estimating that at any one time about one percent of Durham’s population is incarcerated at the jail on charges other than murder, for which bond would typically be denied.

“The question is why do they all look the same?” he said.

Battaglia didn’t specifically say if he thought changes were needed to the local money bail system—as other candidates were asked later in the evening—but did say that when setting a bond, he takes into account a defendant’s community ties, family responsibilities, and the wishes of the victim. That sometimes leads him to set a high bond, pointing to a nearly-fatal domestic violence case as an example.

“Those are the decisions that sometimes we have to face,” he said. “If it’s a second-degree trespass and they’re arrested and they’re before me and they haven’t made bond yet, they’re getting out.”

During the forum, candidates were asked what “Black Lives Matter” means to them, what they saw as the appropriate role of bail, what changes if any they’d like to see to the system, and if they would revise a 2011 bail schedule recommending bail amounts for different charges.

The schedule is written by the chief District and Superior Court judges. Now state Representative Marcia Morey, not Hill, was the chief District Court judge at the time.

Hill said he would be open to talking about revising the bond schedule, noting it was put in place after advocates complained judges had too much discretion in setting bail amounts. He said he often assigns unsecured bond, allowing people to get out of jail pretrial, but at a high amount as an incentive to return to court. He said he also favors pretrial release with electronic monitoring, and deferred prosecutions that make dismissals contingent upon community service.

“Even with the most serious offender I’m certainly willing to look at pretrial release,” he said.

Hill said he would like to see more “specialty courts” like mental health and drug courts that provide alternatives to convictions and jail time, but, thanks to the legislature, the county doesn’t have enough judges to do that.

Jones said the bail schedule needs revision. Judges should “rely on their own discretion and experience” in deciding what pretrial release conditions to assign for each case, he said. Speaking about the importance of reducing pretrial detention, he recalled clients from his time as a public defender who wanted to plead guilty just to get home to their jobs and kids, regardless of how they might fare going to trial.

“We need to put more focus on ensuring we don’t deprive individuals of their liberty by keeping them in because of the charge,” he said. “We need to put the emphasis on, one, is the state moving the case along? Do they have the facts to proceed with the case? If not, people need to be out.”

Baxton said the bail schedule should be eliminated because suggesting pre-determined bail amounts relieves judges of their responsibility to weigh the facts and circumstances of each case individually. Unsecured bonds and written promises to appear in court should be assigned more often, she said.

“I think secured bonds are relied on way too often as the first resort for assuring presence in court and protecting the community,” she said. “and that’s not always necessary.”

Being out of jail ahead of time is necessary for a person to fully prepare for court, she said, and people shouldn’t be stuck in jail just because they can’t bail and their case isn’t moving forward. She also advocated for expanding pretrial release programs to cover more offenses.

Hall focused on taking cues from directly affected individuals, and reducing the number of people coming into the criminal justice system. Jail isn’t an appropriate place for people with mental illness or drug addiction, he said, and more money should be put toward those services as an alternative to pretrial incarceration. He also advocated for funding for Participatory Defense, a program that helps defendants’ families navigate and prepare for court.

“The guidelines tell us that we should be taking into account people’s ability to pay and that’s where the equity part comes in because $100 for one person may mean they stay in jail,” he said, “and $1000 for another person may just be chump change

Kerr Davis missed the questions about bail but previously told the INDY she would seek a revision of Durham County’s bond guidelines with the aim of making the criminal justice system more equitable. She also said she’d like to set up a court to deal solely with crimes of poverty.

“A lot of individuals will come to the courthouse and there’s this sigh of relief because they see someone that looks like them and they know they’ll get a fair shake,” she said.

PAC 3 will hold a forum featuring candidates for judge, as well as Major Paul Martin, a write-in candidate for sheriff, on September 8 at 10:00 a.m. at the Lyon Park Community and Family Life Recreation Center, 1309 Halsey Street.