Macbeth | Wednesday, March 4-Sunday, March 22 | Joan H Gillings Center for Dramatic Art, Chapel Hill
“We like to think of it as couples therapy,” actor Ron Menzel said with a laugh.
Menzel was referencing his upcoming lead role in Macbeth alongside his partner, Vivienne Benesch, who will take the stage as Lady Macbeth during the PlayMakers Repertory Company production’s upcoming run. It is the first time the couple has acted in the same play together.
“A couple sees all sides—the good, the bad, the ugly,” Benesch said over a recent video call, talking about the duo’s Macbeth chemistry. “I feel like we got a head start in understanding how to be intimate with each other, challenge each other, and accept the best and the worst of each other.”
The play also marks the first time that Benesch, who has served as producing artistic director at PlayMakers for a decade, will act in a company production—though as she relayed this information, Menzel was quick to jump in with praise: “I think it is worth mentioning that she’s an Obie Award-winning actor and has performed on Broadway.”
Such gentle rapport suggests that Menzel and Benesch probably are not in great need of couples therapy, and also makes the prospect of seeing them portray literature’s most doomed power couple all the more intriguing. Ahead of the play premiere, the INDY interviewed Menzel and Benesch about Macbeth pillow talk, caring for each other in demanding roles, and how Shakespeare continues to speak to audiences today.
INDY: Can you tell us about the complicated relationship between Lady Macbeth and Macbeth? What is their dynamic?
Menzel: Because there is a lot of heat in the play, one of the misconceptions that people have is that there’s great acrimony between the couple—when they’re actually, in a strange way, one of Shakespeare’s happiest couples. They certainly passionately argue about the course of this big event, which is the assassination of a leader, but they’re very united and love each other very much.
Benesch: I would add to that in the very first scene where you meet me, [Macbeth] has written a letter where he calls me his dearest partner of greatness, with this idea of even more greatness promised them. Both Ron and I are really interested in the human quality. That they are not villains—that they come wanting the very, very best for each other. And they have been great partners, which in Shakespeare’s time, with Shakespeare’s couples, is rare. They refer to each other as partners, and I think that’s a beautiful thing. Unfortunately for Lady M, part of her journey and sad trajectory into madness is not only the crime that they commit, and how [her conscience] overwhelms her, but also the loss of their partnership.
How does your own relationship inform your dynamic and chemistry onstage?
Benesch: This will be the first time we perform together. I guess we’ll let you know!
Menzel: We’ve worked together now as co-creators on a variety of projects, with Viv as director and me as actor, [or] both of us creating something together. We work really well together, I always feel, with theater. Familiarity is always an advantage. Oftentimes in rehearsal, you spend, like the first week, just trying to break down things—we’re just human beings. With familiarity comes the ability to use shorthand and go deeper, quicker in scenes, and that sort of thing. I’m looking forward to it.
Benesch: It’s been a funny household here. We’ll be cooking dinner, chopping vegetables, and saying, “Screw your courage to the sticking place!” We’ll run lines all the time in domestic situations.
Menzel: The other day, I woke up, and I heard her whispering something. I leaned over—she was whispering, and I got really close and heard “the attempt, and not the deed.”
Benesch: That’s pillow talk.
You’re like, “Okay, is there something you want to tell me?”
Benesch: I’m excited. But—there’s also a darkness to this play, and to the spirit world of this play, and to the forces at work of our conscience and house. Tracy [Bersley], the director, is interested in this idea of how the power of suggestion can take your psyche over. Ron and I also need to take good care of each other during this time, because it’s a lot. This is a huge role he’s embarking on. The demands are some of the biggest, along with Hamlet and Richard III.
Menzel: The play contains a great tragedy of a dissolution, both of the couple and the people themselves. Viv is right that the care is important. Even though the characters have different trajectories, it is an ensemble event—all of us are in a benevolent conspiracy to communicate a strong desire to an audience. We really want you to have this experience.
Speaking of Hamlet, I wanted to ask if you saw Hamnet, and if you feel like there’s been a resurgence of interest and excitement around Shakespeare? Certainly, we’re living in times that feel somewhat Shakespearean.
Benesch: I’m always hopeful when there’s a great new Shakespeare movie—whether it’s a Shakespeare movie, something based on Shakespeare, anything that can reignite the population’s interest in Shakespeare. I fall in the category that believes that Shakespeare still has everything to offer us, that his scope of understanding the human experience is so vast, generation after generation.
Hamnet is a great example of a film that really investigates that time period and makes you understand his plays from the inside of his and Anne Hathaway’s experience. I always hope that a good Shakespeare production will allow us to see ourselves through that scope of humanity, but at a poetic distance that actually allows us to get closer—if that makes sense? I hope that the poetry never makes people say, “Ah, Shakespeare, oh no, it’s not for me.” At its best, it’s actually an invitation into our souls.
Shakespeare doesn’t need us, we need Shakespeare. There will be people on Mars doing Shakespeare. These plays are going to be around for a long time.”
ron menzel, actor
Menzel: I think that in some ways, with art, it’s got to hang around a while in order for people to say, “Boy, we just keep doing that.” Shakespeare doesn’t need us, we need Shakespeare. There will be people on Mars doing Shakespeare. These plays are going to be around for a long time.
Benesch: And just to get back to Valentine’s Day—even if this play is not about the romance of falling in love, it still captures a deep joining of souls.
Is there a Shakespearean couple, aside from Lady Macbeth and Macbeth, that you’d like to play?
Benesch: We did actually get to do this in COVID as a reading, but I think, probably just because I love the play in the role so much—Rosalind and Orlando in As You Like It.
Menzel: We didn’t get the chance this last time they did it here, but Beatrice and Benedick, of course, in Much Ado About Nothing. It’s nice if we can do witty repartee—that’s good for me, that someone’s writing the lines, because Viv is much more articulate than me.
I would say, based on this interview, that you share a very witty rapport.
Benesch: I will share, one of the most moving renditions of Juliet I’ve ever seen was by a 75-year old woman. Ever since I saw the great Lisa Harrow do the balcony speech at Chautauqua [Theater Company], I’ve been thinking, “Oh, I want to see a production where people in their 60s-plus play Romeo and Juliet.” So maybe we have that to look forward to. Though—that doesn’t end well, either.
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